What exactly is an underground artist? Doesn’t every artist claim to be underground until they blow up? Is there more to the term? Does it describe an artist who makes a certain type of music that will never cater to radio and accept that? Whatever the case may be, Aesop Rock is considered underground.

He’s also been considered alternative, conscious, etc. Whatever he is, the fact is that the man has been making classic music for years. And if there ever was an underground legend, it is Aesop Rock.

He has devoted himself to consistently releasing music that provokes thought, music that took work to make. You probably won’t ever hear him rapping about rims and that’s cool with him. Despite his lack of “mainstream” success you would be hard pressed to find a better lyricist. Never one to limit himself in terms of creativity, he also produces, and is dope at that too.

Sixshot.com caught up with Aesop Rock to discuss his humble beginnings, moving from New York to San Francisco, and how he feels about the business of music today.

Sup man, what's good?

Hello. I’m doing well.

The first thing I want to ask you is, how do you feel about hip-hop today from the big sales slumps to the "hip-hop is dead" proclamations?

Well the sales slumps seem to be industry wide. I’m not gonna lie, it's really depressing. Somew here along the line it all just kind of bubbled over. I'm not really sure what to think anymore, I don't think anyone does. Occasionally I’ll see some big article about how the labels suck and some idiot claims he knows how to 'save' the industry, or how it should have gone, what we should have done, etc. but to be honest they all read as equally asinine guessing games on different ways to hug the internet without losing sales.

At the end of the day the technology exists to steal shit and it's only getting easier. It’s pretty much in the hands of the consumer now and you know what that means. Cheap is better than normal, free is better than cheap. Who knows what's next? As for hip-hop being dead these drums I just hooked up say otherwise.

People always refer to you as alternative or underground. How would you describe yourself as an artist?

I'm bad at this. I'd probably just give someone some songs instead of trying to describe my style or sound.  All those ridiculous sub-genres and over-the-top adjectives come from people trying to describe music. I hope my stuff sounds like rap music being made by someone who finds rap music to be important, and worth working on.
 
None Shall Pass is insane, one of the greatest songs ever made. I gotta know how you came up with the idea for the song.

Oh man thanks so much! When I went to write that song I had a bunch of demos and some finished stuff for that album so I was kind of ready to sort of declare the direction I guess, which is what a title track sometimes does. I got the beat with a slew of other beats from Blockhead and I really liked it. It didn’t sound like anything else on the record but somehow it summed it all up at the same time.

I felt confident I could tear it up on the flow so the harder part was getting some real words to fit into what I needed to say.  I had the term "none shall pass" written down in my notes for a long time and this basic idea of people judging other people. Judgment was already a theme I had been working into my stuff at the time. I guess that particular song allowed me to kind of push the idea. I liked that the beat was kind fast but kind of morose at the same time. It seemed right.
 
I know you had to work while you were recording your first albums. At what point was music bringing enough dough in for you to be able to just focus on that?

I quit my last day job in 2001, pretty much the month after labor days came out. I was supposed to quit and leave for my first national tour the following week. I ended up quitting, and then at the last minute I completely backed out of the tour and never went. I think it was can Ox, myself, Lif, and a handful of RSE acts. I choked, and just straight up didn’t go. It was really wack; I thought I had shot myself in the foot before even getting started.  It was such a major life change for me and something that I never expected so I don’t know. I guess I just got nervous and lost my shit. It was also a really wack time for a bunch of other reasons, not to mention 9-11 was right around the corner.

 It's interesting; I wasn’t even supposed to be in NYC on 9-11. I was supposed to be on tour with those guys, who I think were in Canada on that day. I ended up staying in NYC, and I lived downtown at the time. I guess it's odd for me to think about such a life altering experience in that manner. Obviously it would have affected me either way but being there during all that shit is something that I will never forget. Strange days.
 
I know it's hard but do you have a favorite album of yours and why?

I always like the most recent stuff. I mean each record has a distinct memory and time period connected to it, so in many ways they aren’t even songs to me, just kind of like journal entries that relate to different periods of my life. I relate most to NSP right now. I also think its the best made, best written, and most interesting record I’ve done. It's definitely the work I’m most proud of. I feel I cracked open something big that needed to be cracked open with that one and I have a better idea of where I want to bring this all next.

A lot of people are feeling like this is a great time for independent artists. Would you agree with that?

I think it's a bad time for all artists when people are literally just giving away years worth of work for free on the internet. Maybe it's the least bad for indy artists? I really don’t know. It's probably a worse time than ever before to get locked into some prison-like major label deal. People want and need their freedom. They need to be able to move, not just wiggle their toes from a straight jacket. I guess this whole industry debacle scares the artists into wanting their art back, which I guess is good but I mean I don’t feel like anyone is having fun right now. I feel like the second you start to enjoy yourself you lose your footing. If you stop and smell the roses the industry and fans will both pass you by. It's hard to get comfortable.
 
You live in San Francisco. Was it a big transition after being in New York your whole life?

Indeed it was and is a big transition. These days though I feel like I could live anywhere. I lead a pretty self-contained existence. I love NY, it shaped me, and it gave me a sense of humor that you can’t find anywhere else in the world. An outlook only understood by others from the same region.  I am happy that I was raised on the east coast because there are definite cultural differences that affect the most basic foundation of who you are, and who you will be. I like New Yorkers.  That said, nothing has made me more proud of who I am than bringing a little of that foundation to somewhere where it really stands out. To really know what NY did to me, I had to go other places. I'd like to maybe live a couple other places, then return east to raise some babies. SF is a dope city.
 
You've worked with some incredible artists from El-P to Percee P. What were those experiences like?

I've really had mostly great experiences collaborating. Percee and me have known each other for a long time now, so it's nice to still get the call for a verse here and there. He’s still killing it as usual. And El is a really close friend so that's always great. I always trust that anything we do together will be some dirty shit. I trust his work almost more than anyone.

You're also a producer. Is it a real different creative process from rapping?

Yeah definitely, but somehow they are two sides to the same coin. I usually get frustrated with one and move to the other. Its nice to have a nice simple banger to write to though, so I can always hook up something that’ll pull the verses out, then worry about laying it all into some sort of 'song' later. I love both.
 
I always felt that throughout your career you've always stayed ahead of the curve and also managed to be really diverse. How were you able to do that?

Well, thanks, it's nice to hear that. I've tried to keep myself amused, that's really all I can do. There is so much shit music out there. I know that's a common complaint but honestly how many people are really doing anything about it? The people I keep hearing say that shit sound exactly like the next man or like the people they’re complaining about.

Rap music has more going for it too if you think about it. There’s no other genre where people will compliment not only a song, but say "oh Pharoahe Monch killed his 2nd verse on ______". People literally compare verses. And songs. And beats. Every aspect of the song is individually critiqued. There is so much room to catch wreck in many categories. Cats are really lazy. I mean, shit, I’m lazy, but these dudes are really lazy.

Throughout your career you've obviously "raised your profile" and become a real popular name. In that aspect, what album would you say put you over the top?

Hmm interesting, it's crazy to hear this shit because I never look at it from the outside. I don’t know that I am really a 'popular name.' it's all really been a slow crawl. I never had an overnight hit and still don’t, so it's hard to put a date on when it unfolded. It’s just been steady grind. Occasionally I’ll get a cool promo opportunity and you see me somewhere but people only really know me if they’re looking for my music.

The Living Human Curiosity Sideshow, I had this and read every lyric. Why did you want to give fans every lyric at that point and did the fans think it was a cool idea?

(Laughs) Well, i've never been big on putting lyrics into cd jackets, I don’t know why, but I don’t usually do it. I had had a lot of requests for the lyrics over the years and I decided to figure out an interesting way to get it all out there and sort of wipe the slate clean up to that point. People really dug it. It was a lot of work but I was happy with how it came out.
 
What projects can we expect to see from Aesop Rock in the future?

I did some guest spots on the new Tame One record, Folk and Stress's record, some other random collabs and remixes, I cant remember. Oh I wrote something for Mcsweeney's quarterly review, which is cool. I’m heading back out on tour in the US in august and September, dates will be announced soon. Other than that just making beats and writing for whatever I do next.
 
Anything you'd like to say to all your fans out there?

Dear fans, hell yeah! Best, A.R.